Talk:New York

This subject is featured in the Outline of New York, which is incomplete and needs further development. That page, along with the other outlines on Wikipedia, comprise Wikipedia's Outline of Knowledge, which also serves as the table of contents or site map of Wikipedia.

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Archives
Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 (move proposal) Archive 4

Navy vessel section

While this section is interesting, I believe that it's definitely too detailed to follow WP:SUMMARY. The state of Virginia has an entire class of submarine named after it, but has no mention in its article. I would propose that this section be deleted entirely and either spun off as a separate article, or just accept that the state of New York will be mentioned in the respective vessels' articles. upstateNYer 15:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree wish UpstateNYer. Many states have Navy ships named after them but none have much more than a brief mention of the ships. Kraikk (talk) 04:30, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

history without 9/11

I know it's relatively recent history and more associated with the city than the state, but it seems like Sep. 11 2001 is worth a mention considering its global impact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vonbondie3000 (talk • contribs) 22:34, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with this. 82.1.157.16 (talk) 23:49, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

the love in new york

new york is a good city and i like it but in it all of people work hard but get alot of money and do not love it as much as i do

the love in new york

New York is the best state and alot more people should move there scince it is the 3rd biggest state in the U.S.A and is the best State!

ahmed2014_2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.205.134.71 (talk) 13:13, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Crime?

How is it possible this article doesnt even mentions the word crime not even once. It seems somewhat brochureish to me. Could someone please look it up--201.233.76.36 (talk) 21:17, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Articles about states don't generally mention crime because crime rates usually vary widely within a state - it would be difficult to say anything general and state-wide statistics would be largely useless. Some places in New York State probably have very high crime rates, and I think I read somewhere that Colonie often is featured as one of the safest places in the US. AlexiusHoratius 21:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

...although if someone wanted to add a brief mention about how the state-wide crime rate compares with the national average I suppose I wouldn't have a problem with that. AlexiusHoratius 21:33, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with AlexiusHoratius, the state varies widely in crime see here. South Bay (talk) 01:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

New York

New York is a very famous place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.8.43 (talk) 21:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

What a mess!

This article is a total mess!! There are incorrectly formatted pictures and captions, a confusing mixture of formats for different sections, a sprinkling of unnecessary infoboxes and excessive pictures . . . I don't mean to be overly negative and then not do anything to help out, but it will take a while to tighten this article up! 24.20.200.67 (talk) 01:05, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree. I just did some work to clean it up. I did a lot of work a few months back, but it seems a few people have pretty much ruined my previous work. Hopefully it's a bit more readable now. upstateNYer 04:01, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

pronunciation

Pronunciations are in generic English, not in "American". Please read the MOS. Of course, adding notable local pronunciations is encouraged, but is secondary. kwami (talk) 07:44, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

There is no such thing as generic english. 07:48, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Please read WP:PRON, linked from the pronunciation section of the MOS. We don't transcribe things in local dialects unless we note them as such, and then normally as a secondary transcription to a generic one intended for our entire readership. This is not US Wikipedia, but English Wikipedia. You're telling our readers that the "New" in "New York" is pronounced differently than the "new" in "newspaper", which is clearly incorrect. It's not "Noo York". This might be forgiven if New York were some hick backwater that no-one had heard of, but it's an international city, known all over the world. The pronunciation we give is the pronunciation that's used, which is /nju: jɔrk/. (Note that that is not British pronunciation either, which would not have the /r/.) kwami (talk) 08:07, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

We have a very specific "diaphonemic" transcription system and being consistent is important, especially with words that have different pronunciations depending on dialect. There's nothing in the manual of style that says transcriptions housed within e.g. {{pron-en}} should make a US/UK distinction and the the WP page that the transcription links to (WP:IPA for English) assumes that the diaphonemic system is being used (i.e. that we shouldn't be making a US/UK distinction).

Now, DC, if you disagree with this policy, you ought to bring it up at Wikipedia talk:IPA for English (Kwami has even begun a discussion there specific to this). Simply insisting that this article should be treated differently goes against the overriding principle of a manual of style.

While we're talking about this, though, I wonder if there's any need to add an additional pronunciation. In addition to /njuː ˈjɔːrk/, there's also or [nuː ˈjɔrk] and [or [nuː ˈjɔk] but the latter two are completely predictable from the diaphonemic transcription or, as the MOS linked above states "...since such variation on the part of the speaker is automatic, it does not need to be spelled out..." — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]} 10:21, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

There were two local pronunciations, rhotic and non-rhotic, before the edit war started. Personally, I favor having the local pronunciations because US Americans tend to be put out by <j> for "y". That is, it's not so much predictability, but accessibility for a population poorly educated in the IPA, which barely has a toehold in local dictionaries. kwami (talk) 11:15, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

But wouldn't US Americans be put out by the <j> in york in either transcription? — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]} 19:58, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, probably, though this editor didn't seem to mind.

I've added the New York dialect pronunciation. kwami (talk) 20:23, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Which editor? You? — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]} 02:35, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

No, DC. He objected to the j in nju:, but not in jork. kwami (talk) 04:19, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't think DC's issue was with the confusion of j.

The New York dialect transcription you've recently added makes sense to me, but the General American one doesn't. Not yet at least. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]} 06:18, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Does nju rhyme with mew, few, hew, pew, queue, view, and you? For most people I know (except for those from Britain), new rhymes with sue and Sioux, due and dew, and Lou and loo--JimWae (talk) 04:45, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes primarily to the second. AFAIK it rhymes with sue /sju:/, due /dju:/, and dew /dju:/ for just about everyone, so just pronounce it that way. This way it doesn't matter what your dialect happens to be. If you pronounce those words like Sioux, do, then that's how you say the others too. Click on the link if you'd like to know how the system works so that most people can use it for their own dialect. kwami (talk) 05:56, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I live in a yod-coalescing territory. I've asked a couple of nonlinguists in the past whether a word like new (with yod-coalescence) rhymes with a word like few (without it). The heart of the issue is really whether the j element of /juː/ is part of the syllable nucleus or of the syllable onset: if it's the former, then the two words shouldn't rhyme and if it's the latter, then they should. I haven't gotten any concrete answers. However, if they don't rhyme in a yod-coalescing dialect like mine, then that means that new rhymes with few in some dialects and with boo in others. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]} 06:18, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

True. You need to know that /j/ doesn't occur after /n/ in your dialect, just as RP speakers need to know that /r/ doesn't occur before /k/ in their dialect. That's why these are given as examples in the intro to the IPA key.

Come to think of it, "New York" would be a good example for the key. kwami (talk) 07:25, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Name

I think the article should be renamed New York State, or New York (US State) to avoid confusion with the city. 82.1.157.16 (talk) 23:51, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

There was a very long discussion about this in 2008, in this page's Archive 3. Station1 (talk) 01:07, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

"Empire State"

The empire state disambiguation page directs you here, but this article doesn't even mention the nickname, let alone explain the history behind it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.193.205 (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

It's mentioned in the infobox. Please feel free to add information about the nickname to the article. Powers ^T 12:56, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Questions for article:
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